This interview was made by: Joe J. Azevedo
Retyped by: Mary R. (Polly) Baker, May 1997
Supervised by: Sarah B. West, Staff Coordinator

Oral History Interview 2 on Point Loma Activities

INTERVIEW WITH JOE J. AZEVEDO

I am going to try and recount some of the early days of San Diego, as much as I can possibly remember. This will be starting back in 1914 and most of it will be about Point Loma. In those days Point Loma had very few homes on it. As you can well imagine, almost 60 years ago it was rather bare and didn't look like too much of a place that anyone would want to live. But if you are around today and you know the place as it is today, you know exactly what it looks like -- quite a place.

The newspapers might well have been printing the headlines of today instead of those read by our grandparents 50 years ago. Back in 1914 things really began to hum and the ball really started to roll.

I want to tell you about the big automobile race on Point Loma in 1915. It was quite a race. We had men in there who were very prominent at the time and for years thereafter. This was a big race for us, especially the kids. Well, we had Barney Oldfield in this race; Cooper (his car was Number 8); and Ralph De Palma. All three were big aces. There were others, but I can't recall their names now, but they were quite the drivers in those days. [Eddie Rickenbacker later to be a World War ace; and retired as president of American Airlines.]

This race was run down Canon Street onto Rosecrans in Point Loma, down Rosecrans to Lytton Street in Loma Portal, and around Lytton Street into ocean Beach, back around the top of ocean Beach, back around into Roseville again, and down Canon Street. And they ran around this circle from 10:00 in the morning until 4:30 in the afternoon. I don't recall how many miles they put on, but it was quite a few miles.

The road was banked at Rosecrans and Canon Street; they banked the dirt road there so that they could hit that corner at a better rate of speed without sliding. Well, most of us kids were all stacked up at Cabrillo Terrace right along the side of the road as they came down there by the old church. Of course, most of us had never seen an automobile race in our lives. Most of us had never seen the automobile, a racing automobile -- never mind the race.

Well, as I said, they ran all day and it was quite a bit of excitement on Point Loma as you might well know. I remember distinctly that Barney Oldfield had a rather dirty old black car, square lines on it; and Cooper had a white one with a big 8 on it. And Ralph De Palma had a green car.

And on one of the laps coming down through Canon Street, Cooper, Number 8, was hitting a pretty good lick coming down there and we kids didn't think he was going to make the corner. When he did get down to the corner he was afraid to make it and he went straight ahead, right down Canon Street. He didn't stop the car until he had the front wheels in the bay. A bunch of us kids went down there and watched them pull the car back out again, get going again.

Barney Oldfield got down in front of old man Baker's big, yellow house and caught fire. Everyone came running out there with buckets of water, put out the fire, and got him going again. We had quite a time that Sunday, and, of course, as you might well know, all of us kids were going to become race drivers after that. I think some of them still would like to be race drivers; I think I was one of them, too. It was a big event -- they never had another one like it again. It was the only event of its kind that was ever held there. It was more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

I'll tell you more about the Ford automobile pretty soon. I want to make this a combination of a little of everything to make it interesting enough for anyone who has to listen to this, or wants to listen to it. The Detroit manufacturer made news in 1914 when he fixed a $5.00 minimum wage for an eight-hour day, setting a new standard for labor wages. And Fords, ranging in price from $440 to $975, were outselling the more expensive Maxwell, Reo, Hudson, Overland, Hupmobile, Oakland, and the Peerless. Mr. [Henry] Ford and his popular Model T, affectionately nicknamed the Flivver, or Tin Lizzy, said he was going to paint all those cars banana yellow and sell them in bunches. Yes, it was the beginning of the 20th century, all right.

I remember Point Loma at the time when we came here from New Bedford, Massachusetts, before dad started to pack tuna in our backyard on Evergreen Street. I remember that at that time the Portuguese fishermen were in the habit of burying their money in tin cans in the sand at La Playa. They used to bury their money in cans under the fish sheds.

They had quite a few old fish sheds on the sand with a small wharf on them and in back of them up on the sand they had some racks. The racks were made of lath. They were spaced just so far apart and on these racks they would dry their fish that they had caught at sea, bring them in and salt them, dry them. And then they were shipped out to different points -- most of them not too far. Most of this was for their own consumption or for local consumption here in a small way.

I remember as well, too, seeing the Italian fishermen who lived at that time on India Street, Columbia Street, State Street, and Kettner Boulevard, where most of them live today. I remember seeing them on the Embarcadero around their fishing boats, their sardine boats, which, of course, is the only type of fish that they fished. Most of them fished sardines. Outside of rock cod and a few of the other fish that they brought in at the time, they were after sardines. The men in those days were in the habit of wearing a red sash which was wrapped around their waist twice. I remember seeing a tassel on it. They wore a stocking cap on their heads -- it was a tradition. It was a tradition of the Portuguese fishermen, too, but that was in the old country. They didn't bring that tradition to this country. But the Italians still stuck to their old way of dress; not all of them, but quite a few of the fishermen dressed that way. On the left side of that sash they always carried a big bankroll. They didn't trust the banks anymore than the Portuguese fishermen trusted the banks. They were burying their money in the sand because they didn't trust the banks. And so did the Italian fisherman -- they kept it on their person, but stashed in their sash on the left side, as a rule. And on their right side they carried a large stiletto, and they knew how to use it. I never did hear of an Italian fisherman being robbed or accosted in any way. I don't believe that anyone who knew that they had that money there would ever touch them. They knew how to use those stilettos.

I remember, too, at the time that we were growing up in the latter part of 1915 and the beginning of 1916 that Pancho Villa was being chased all over the hills by our famous General [John Joseph] Pershing, who acquired the name of Black Jack at that time. He chased Villa all over Mexico; he never did catch him. Villa was finally ambushed and murdered. But some of his men were taken prisoners at that time, were shipped to San Diego and imprisoned at Fort Rosecrans.

There was a wire fence that ran from the bottom of Fort Rosecrans, from Rosecrans Boulevard clear to the top of the hill. It's still there. And inside this compound were these prisoners (Pancho Villa's soldiers) who were dressed in all types of uniforms. Some of them had on a pair of blue pants with a green jacket; some had caps and some didn't. Some had shoes and some were barefooted. That was the type of men that were being captured and brought over here from Villa's army. And I remember we kids used to go over there and tease them through the fence; try to talk to them. They couldn't speak any English, of course. They were paid eight cents a day by our government as prisoners of the United States, were kept in Fort Rosecrans and were fed three meals a day. That wasn't too bad for them. They weren't being shot at. That was better than being in the army over there in Mexico. So they didn't care to run away; they were quite happy being prisoners. They used to dig holes under the fence and they would go from La Playa to Roseville. It's not called Roseville anymore because they stopped doing so a good many years ago.

But Point Loma is divided into several sections. The beginning of Point Loma is actually Loma Portal, then it's Roseville, and then it's La Plays and Fort Rosecrans. So you understand this was in a government compound. Well, they'd dig these holes under the fence and then go down to Roseville which was only about a mile and a half away. And they would go to old man Lombardi's store on the corner of Rosecrans Boulevard and Canon Street, and they'd buy candy or fruits, or whatever they wanted at the store. They'd look around a little bit and then they'd go back into Fort Rosecrans. They'd climb back underneath the fence and cover up the holes and stay inside.

I also remember the old Tunaville [Toonerville?] Trolley. We had a one-man trolley car that would run from Fort Rosecrans to where Von's Market is today [Rosecrans and Nimitz], a distance of about two miles. It met the other streetcar coming from town (San Diego) and they met there and the one coming from San Diego would make a right turn and go up through the canyon and go over to Ocean Beach, while the little streetcar which had one man operating it went back and forth. It started in the morning and stopped around 12:00 at night; it ran all day and half the night. We kids used to kind of tease this old conductor on the old trolley car. We drove him half nuts most of the time by some of the things that we would do certain times of the year. Usually, as a rule, we did this at Halloween time. We would soap the tracks over near La Playa, just at the beginning of the top of the hill, and when the old trolley car would get to the top of the hill it would roll down the hill and go out of control.

Just as it got to the top of the hill we kids would jump on the back of the car and pull the trolley off. Well, there was no control of the car by then, and it would just run on down that hill and halfway up the other hill. Thank goodness it never did get over the top of the other one and keep on going because if it had, it would have probably run into the government gates where the guardhouse was. But it was one of the things that we did in those days. And I also remember the 1915 flood. At that time there was a man that was hired by the city of San Diego to make it rain. His name was Hatfield. He was offered $10,000 by the city of San Diego if he would make it rain. We hadn't had any rain for a couple of years to speak of, and it was quite dry. It was way too dry and something had to be done if possible to try and get it to rain. Well, he did all right. At least something happened. It rained for three or four days, day and night, and it didn't stop.

The dam broke up above Mission Valley and of course Mission Valley at that time consisted mostly of dairy farmers who had their cattle, pigs, horses, and so forth, and a few houses scattered around. And when the dam broke with all the rain that we had had, it caused a flood in Mission Valley. The water came pouring down through Mission Valley and where the Marine Base is today that was all mud flats in through there. When we got a heavy rain or high tide that became flooded through there.

The water came pouring right down through Mission Valley through the riverbed (which is still there but dry now most of the year) and on through to where the ...

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... there didn't and we had some quite prominent people on Point Loma at that time. Of course you can imagine what we used to do. We would raise Cain -- not only tip the thing over on Halloween, but in the last few years before they built the new post office we would pick the whole thing up, take it down to the corner of Rosecrans and Canon by the old grocery store and hoist it up on the telephone pole and the next morning it was hanging up there.

Well, of course, to us that was real funny. It wasn't quite so funny to the postmaster the next day nor to the people living there. But you understand how kids do things. We didn't hurt anybody, I mean harm anyone. They are doing that today; we didn't do that in those days. That was just part of growing up, I suppose.

There is another place I want to tell you about that was a very interesting place not only to me, but to everyone on Point Loma. This was the old Theosophical Institute. Now, the Theosophical Institute was located right off of Catalina Boulevard on the road out to the lighthouse. The beginning of the property started at Hill Street and it ran to the government gates which is Fort Rosecrans. All that property belonged to the Theosophical Society.

Madame Tingley was the founder of the Theosophical Society, and at one time she was headquartered in Europe. They had an institute in Europe as well as they had this one here; but this one was the largest one that they had. Their belief was in reincarnation; they were strong believers of this particular type of worship, as you might call it, or belief. And we knew all about that and they believed in a lot of other things, too.

Of course we, as kids, used to hear a lot of things and a lot of the things were made up, but it was quite a place. It was a large area as I remember, and they had a lot of children going to school there. They had good schools and they were well trained. They had the best training in the world there.

And I remember Madame Tingley coming down Canon Street in her Pierce Arrow. She used to sit in the middle of the backseat, right square in the center of the backseat, and sat right straight up, real straight. And she always, for years, wore the same hat. It reminded me of pictures I used to see of the Queen of England, the old queen, that funny little hat sitting on the top of her head sitting in the backseat with a chauffeur driving. He was all dressed in yellow. All men at the Institute wore a yellow uniform which had a high neck, a cap and yellow trousers. And they were very neat. And we kids used to call them the "yellow tails" and that stuck for years.

But I remember seeing Madame Tingley come down the hill in her big car, and sometimes she would stop at Lombardi's store on the corner of Rosecrans and Canon Street and the chauffeur would go in and buy something that they needed. But she never got out of the car. They were usually on their way to town and they would go on down Rosecrans to San Diego. I remember that very well.

Later on in years I lived up on Catalina Boulevard not far from the main gate. My wife would keep after me every once in awhile. She was rather curious about the Institute up there as to what they were doing. But they had a guard there and people could not get in unless they had a special pass or permission to get inside.

But later as the society dwindled and Madame Tingley passed away and they were running out of funds, they were down to just a few. Their school was cut out and the whole trouble was money, as usual -- they were running out of it. They began to let the people in there. If you wanted to you could go in for a small fee. It was immaculate in there and some of the buildings had been built in the 1800s. They had a lot of gingerbread all over the buildings, but the architecture was something that was completely different from what you would find anywhere else. Most of their buildings were built in an octagon shape. They had a reason for building them that way.

The people that you could see, the women, were dressed all in white. The children had a uniform which was white with a blue collar. There were several small classrooms and the classes were always small, and that way they could acquire more knowledge, and they did. They were much more advanced than we were in our schools, even up to high school and college. These children were educated right straight through until they were grown up and in college and turned out into the world. There was a palace there called a Peace Palace, a beautiful building with a high glass dome. It's not there today, but at that time as I said, my wife used to always say, "I'd like to go in there and see what they do." So when they finally opened it to the public we did go in there one Sunday and we went into the Peace Palace. They were having a lecture there at that time and I was fairly well educated, but I had never heard words used such as they used in there. The people who spoke in this Peace Palace were so far advanced. It was hard to believe. They were all doctors of one type or another.

Well, the feeling that you got when you walked into the Peace Palace was that it was "peace." I have never since experienced the feeling that I had when we stepped in there. You walked in and sat down and there was no rustling of chairs; there wasn't a sound and the place was almost full of people. You could drop a pin and could hear it clear across the building. You had that feeling of tranquillity or peace that you have when you have complete silence. And that is why, I suppose, that it was called the Peace Palace, because you were completely at peace with the world when you were there. I have never experienced anything like it since.

We listened to the lectures. We couldn't get too much out of them because they were completely over our heads. But we would begin to see the education that these people were acquiring - the children as well. They were rather odd; it's hard to explain the type of people they were turning out. Outside of being literary people and cultured, they were completely different from the average person.

The children could not leave this territory. They were inside the school grounds and were not permitted to leave until they were grown up. They had been in there for years and never left. Then when they became older and their uniforms were changed and the men were used in the different areas around there, they were permitted to leave the area, but not for too long a time.

Later on, of course, the Theosophical Institute moved from here and disbanded and they went up to Pomona. Then a university took over the property, but it was run-down. The land is still there and it is still being used, but it is not like it was before. Part of the area has been broken up and they have built some nice homes through there. They had to do that in order to obtain the money to go ahead with the rest of the property. But it was quite a place. I just have to add this to my story of Point Loma because it was part of my growing up there, part of my living there, and part of the things that I used to do.

Well, I must have been possibly 14 years of age at the time and my father had the fish packing plant, the San Diego Packing Company, which was next to the Kettenberg Boat Company. They were large buildings and I remember at the time that dad had a mechanic working in the cannery. He was actually a machinist; he was a very brilliant man. He was a Dutchman and he lived in Ocean Beach and was a very meticulous man. He was very precise about everything he did and everything had to be done in the correct way. I remember my dad turning me over to him and telling him to "take this kid and show him how to use a file, a saw, a hammer and chisel, and show him how to use them properly." And, believe me, he did and I have never forgotten it to this day.

But he was quite a character. So one day he made a mistake and he told me he had an old motorcycle in his shed over at Ocean Beach. Well, when he said motorcycle, that did it. I've always been nuts about motorcycles, automobiles and mechanics. It's been part of my life, always has been, and still is to this day. I hounded my father. He said at the time, "You can have this motorcycle if your father will sanction it or will give me the okay. Now," he said, "it's been sitting over there for years and I don't ride it anymore and you can have it."

Well, of course I pestered my father and pestered him so much that he finally said, "Okay, go ahead, you can have it. But," he said, "if I ever catch you taking a spill on it or getting hurt in any way, I'll run it off the end of my dock right into the ocean." And I believe he would have, too.

Well, I took that motorcycle -- it was called a Thor. It was built by the Thor Washing Machine Company and they built washing machines for years. It weighed an awful lot. It was a real heavy machine. And if you can imagine, it was a belt drive; it had a two and a half-inch belt. And the only way that you could go forward with this motorcycle was to press down on the idler. And this idler would tighten your belt and you would move ahead. And that's the way it ran.

Well, I learned to ride that thing quite well and I had a lot of fun with it. I wasn't very tall or very big. Once I got hold of that thing and I learned to ride it, I remember going down to the cannery on Sundays when it was closed and there was nobody working down there. I'd ride around those packing tables and the cleaning tables. There were some pretty sharp curves around there, but I took them on that big, heavy machine at 14 years of age. I remember it very well.

Well, everything went fine for awhile, but I made another big mistake and got up on top of Cabrillo Terrace, which was a very nice section of Point Loma, not far from the old St. Agnes Church today. It's a beautiful area, but it's rather a sharp hill and it curves and was not paved then; it was rather sandy. And I started at the top of Cabrillo Terrace with my old Thor motorcycle and I came down there hell bent for election. Well, I hit one of the corners too fast and I spilled and slid in the sand, and that belt caught my pants and practically tore them off, ripping the skin up and down my legs, one more than the other.

Well, when I went home my mother took one look at me and she said, "That does it, wait until your dad gets home." That's the old saying, of course -- "now wait until your dad gets home." Well, when dad came home he took one look at me and heard what had happened and he said, "All right, you know what I said I would do." Well, he didn't do that. We patched up the old motorcycle and gave it back to the old Dutchman again and that was the end of my motorcycle riding then. But that was my first motorcycle.

I have had five since then. And I would still get a kick out of riding them. My son seems to get the same kick out of it. I guess it's in his blood same as it was in mine. He is a pretty good rider. But I think he is growing a little out of it now from what I hear, and I hope he does.

I hope this has been an interesting story to you and anyone that's going to listen to it. It's early San Diego and mostly early Point Loma, but San Diego county, growing up here and seeing things and doing things, things that I still remember. I just made notes on all these things and I've tried to give you a picture as I saw it, and the things that we did. And I hope that you've enjoyed it. Anytime that you drive out that way today you might think of some of the things that you heard on this tape. Thank you very much.

END OF INTERVIEW